Welcome to the Interior Perspective, where luxury real estate meets timeless design. I'm Nicole Fisher, a Hudson-based interior designer working with the region's most exclusive properties. Each week, we sit down with top brokers to explore the stories, insights, and inspirations behind the most remarkable homes on the market. This is your front row seat to the art of elevated living. Let's get started. Today we are going behind the walls, literally. My guest today is Stephen Dunn, a custom home builder in Raleigh, North Carolina, a family man and an entrepreneur. Stephen and I met in our business coaching program and our crossover had me keen on breaking down the connection between interior design and home building for the ultimate client experience. Stephen, Absolutely. So do tell me, I took some time and looked at your website, beautiful stuff. What inspired Yeah, so I have an interesting story. I did not actually start the company. So the company started in 2016, three best friends, one of them had been a lifelong home builder since the beginning of early 2000. So he went through the crash. I came in to do finance and then actually just started taking on more and more responsibility with the intentionality of I want to learn everything. the owner's lives easier. And then they rewarded me, which was very fortunate to let me purchase in and become an owner of the business as well. And so I've been an owner for the last 2 years. And I run all the daily operations, make all the decisions. I sit over top of design. I do spend a lot of time on house plans. And then I've got a team of people that really does the actual construction side of it. Because I don't have a construction background. I was an accountant and a consultant. And then I worked for Ultra High Net Worth in a startup company for a short Wow, interesting. So how are you finding that Yeah, I mean, I think today everything's about people. And so I think that's one thing I was a little bit different on that finance side is that I was very people oriented. So from the moment I joined a big four accounting company, I was like, hey, how can I go to market and meet people? I attribute that a lot to my parents of being, hey, you know, the key is to kind of be quote unquote, a rain man, to meet people, make connections, bring in business. And so I've always been a people person. That's how I got into consulting. And so when you, when you have that focus and emphasis on people and communication, you start to learn a lot. And I think on the creative side, I'm, it's not that I'm super creative, you know, my father definitely is, he's kind of a artist and attorney at the same time. But for me, it's just been about listening to what people want and then taking that and putting it down on the paper. in a way that I look at it and go, okay, is this something that I would love? And then based off all the feedback that we get, because we build 20 homes a year, is this the same feedback that our clients are doing? And since we're so heavily pre-sale oriented to client focused, I get a lot of input from clients on, here's why I like this, here's why I like that. And all of that communication really helps shape the creative side of our business in terms of how to design the house, And then from an interior design perspective, I have two wonderful interior designers that do a fantastic job in-house to really help that client experience, whether they bring a designer from an outside party that can kind of help them full service or people that just want to trust our designers to help them stay, you know, in Right. I love that you mentioned this relationship aspect of what you're doing, because they find in new home construction, the sense of your personality and what the client really wants is often, you know, put aside in order to build something quickly and get it done. And why we actually don't handle a lot of, we don't do a ton of new construction. We do much more on the renovation side because there is that lack of connection really. And, you know, when the creativity is lost for me, that is just, it's not an enjoyable project to be on. So we're certainly not continuing to like reuse and redo stuff. We make every project really unique. So I do love hearing about that relationship that you have with your clients. Do you find people come to you because you're able Absolutely. So, you know, I think when our company started, we were averaging about$800,000, which is still a very expensive house. But, you know, we're now trending to, you know, our average price is over $2 million per home. And one of the biggest shifts I made when I kind of started taking over everything is, you know, we used to reuse some plans. But that took away from that creativity from like, if we really were a custom builder, A custom builder, we rarely build something twice. And if we do, we're making iterations off of it, or we're changing the exterior. Maybe there's aspects of it that we kept because people love. And so I do think that that is a big component to what brings clients to us, is that adaptability, that versatility. Because we can build everything from your 1.4, 1.5, all the way up to 5 million plus. And we're actively doing it. So I can walk you through it, and I can see it. And the other thing we do a bit differently in our marketplace is that we're not a complete spec builder. We don't not want to work with clients like some builders do. And they want it to be their own personal masterpiece, their own design. And we're not a 100% pre-sale builder where we only want to build with somebody who brings us a land or a lot. We also allow people to come in on our specs or our inventory homes at any stage in the process. and take that process over. And any selections that have not been locked in or already put a deposit down for, clients can come in and make the house their own. And I think that's helped us tremendously in a year this year that has been a little more inventory. You see it in the news. I only have one house left to sell, and that house is three to four months from being done right now. And that's because I can get clients that have come in and They get to have a say in what their house is going to look like. And in my opinion, if I'm going to spend $2 million on a house, I want to be able to make it my own and not have it just be a builder home that we tried Right. No, that absolutely makes sense. So explain to me the difference between your presale and when you have a Yeah. So we do about 60% resale, full custom, you know, from client comes in with the land that typically we've bought or subdivision that we're in, and they will design a plan, some design fully from scratch. And that's where it is. That's truly, truly custom from the ground up. We have some that say, Hey, I've seen this plan of yours. I really like it. I'd like to make it my own. And I have a wonderful sales guy up front who gets your needs, your wants, your avoids, your desires, and he puts it all on paper. And then sometimes we'll say, hey, do you want to take the three to four months to design new? Or do you want me to take your list and try and find you a plan that works for you? And then we can kind of iterate off of that. Because putting an elevation on an existing floor plan with some minor modifications is much faster than, you know, going from the ground up. And so that's that pre-sale client experience and everything is theirs. They go from start to finish making every single selection on the, you know, the spec build, the inventory build side, you know, we call them exit or signature homes. That's one where typically, you know, myself and my sales guy will look at the area and say, okay, what type of home fits this area? Who are we trying to sell it to? And then based off of that, you know, we'll get our square footage, we'll get our main features as you're living on the first floor and on the second floor, we'll design the exterior to something that is elegant. I like things that are not so different that it stands out, but it's different enough that when somebody drives up to the house, they go, I'm proud that that's my house because it really shines. That's what I think really makes people buy. I think that's why the design on the inside is so important and why we've invested so heavily in our design team to do that, because that's the other feedback that we get on our spec homes is that they're thoughtfully crafted, they're thoughtfully designed. It all goes together. You don't see a mix of like a modern element with a traditional. you know, it's, it's all ties together very well. And that's something that frankly I could never do, but that's why I have two ladies on my team who like, they are outstanding at it. And that's the feedback we get a lot of times, why our houses are going and, you know, people start to take notice that we've kind of stepped up our game in that regard from a design standpoint. And Right. So apart from your more robust team that's able to do all of these things, your investment then is initially the land or the property. Do Yes. Yeah, we do. So that's about 40% of our, you know, what we do. So probably about eight homes a year is probably about where we sit houses where, you know, we'll design it, we'll start it. Um, and that's where the market feedback, having all the clients, you know, we really try to design it to something that somebody would want to come and take at any stage in the process. Um, cause like I said, we will list it as soon as we get going. Cause we're like, Hey, you know, yes, we're taking a risk when we do that because price can fluctuate. But at the end of the day, I like working with people and I enjoy that process. And I think that the team enjoys that process of getting to meet new people, getting them to put their personal touches on it. It's a lot of fun. And so that's why we really open it up and we enjoy that. Whereas that's not always the case. So that's a pretty Yeah. So maybe a pain point question, but do you like Gwen or how do you deal with Yeah. So, you know, we've, as everybody did the first time it happened, you know, we had our headaches cause we didn't know how to set the roles and responsibilities. I look at it now as it is a, it's truly like a partnership within a partnership. So you have like the client and the builder and that's a partnership, but then you have their designer and your design team. as a partnership as well. And as long as you're clearly outlining who's, who's doing what, what roles they have, you know, we've recently worked with a couple of this. It's been much smoother because upfront it said, okay, Hey, we're going to handle this. You know, they're going to handle this. This is what the client paid for from that designer. And then really integrating them into the team, you know, working with our designers. It's not that our designers step out completely. It creates a little bit more work for them. So like, that's something that I have to be very conscious of kind of as the overseer and the owner of the company. But when their designer can talk to our designer, it's almost like they can collaborate, they can answer questions, they can work together. So then the right information is communicated to that project manager building the house. Because I think where I've seen it go wrong in the past is that the external designer is working with the client, the client's communicating with the project manager or the builder. And just like any game of telephone, something gets missed, something gets lost. And so that's where we've kind of adapted our process to say, no, as long as we're overly communicating with each other, that's where it can work very well in tandem. Frankly, oftentimes when the designer does come in, the homes are beautiful at the end of the day. And so it's a great product for us to showcase and finish. And there's just something to be said about having a full service designer that can do everything from planning out your furniture while they're picking your light fixtures, while they're picking your cabinet colors. There's something to that for that higher net worth client that doesn't want to spend a lot of time building the house because they want to focus on their business, which is Right. Yes. Do you, what's the, at what point do you end? Is it at the, you know, when your permits are complete, you've got your CO, you Yeah, so the end point of the builder team and the build is when the clients move into the house. At that point, you hope it's a fully punched out house, and we call it an orientation list. There's nothing left on that list that needs to be completed. Sometimes, trades are clumsy, and they break a window, and there's a window that's got to get replaced. There's a long lead time for those occasionally. Typically, we have that orientation, what we actually come back 30 days later, we call it a courtesy walk, we walk the house with you. And we go over, okay, hey, your movers came in, somebody came in, something probably got nicked up, something probably got scratched. And we'll come in and we'll try and help take care of that for you. So it's still a new house. And then if there's something that you didn't see, because let's be honest, every person walking a house, and the more time you spend in it, you're going to find things. we'll help them kind of take care of that at 30 days. And then it transfers to a client care manager of ours. So, you know, we have a one-year warranty that we give to everybody. We give it to them upfront. So even before they sign a contract with us, they know exactly what that warranty entails. And our client care manager will help you out. But even if it does extend beyond a year, the client care manager we have is so amazing and he will come to your house, he'll help you out. And if it's truly something where it's a defect of the builder, I'm not gonna sit there and point you back to the contract and say, well, it's been a year, I'm sorry. We look at it and we go, if this is truly a defect, we need to fix this and make it right because you pay a lot of money for this house. And if it's something where it was, you know, there's a homeowner maintenance issue or something happened, we'll gladly still come to your house, we'll give you our advice. And if you need someone to just kind of tell you the order of operations to let somebody in to fix something, you know, he's also there to do that with the client as well to kind of guide him through that process. So it's not just, Hey, good luck. And that's, that's because my philosophy is really that, you know, we're, we're never done. You know, I hope that, you know, we still have a relationship at the end of it and we're able to still communicate and talk. Cause I also just like to see what people do in their houses over time and just kind of be there for them because you know, if they build again, I'd love to be their builder. And if they don't build again, then, you know, or they, they go work with somebody else. I'd love them to say, Hey, we had a great experience with this person. You just had the land Right. What do you think is one of the misconceptions I don't know if it's a misconception. Besides cost. Yeah, I don't know if it's a misconception per se, but I think that everybody thinks, okay, two things I'm thinking about it. The first one is that it takes a really long time to build new. I don't agree with that statement. I think it can take some people a really long time to build. Those are typically the guys that don't have a process, a system, and a team in place. And so I think a lot of people get scared to build because they're like, oh, I've heard it takes two to three years to move in. Well, in our contracts, it's 12 months from the time your foundation's in. We don't miss that. Oftentimes I get you in earlier, but I am a, don't overset expectations. And so oftentimes I'm like, okay, it's 12 months because I want to come in before that to make you feel good, make you feel like we're ahead of schedule because that just makes the experience better for everybody. The other aspect to that I think everybody struggles with in building is there's so many components that go into a house. How in the world can I pick all of that and manage it? Because that was my concern when one of my best friends built or ever got into building. I was like, I could never do that. I could never make all the decisions. But again, that comes back to, do you have a good interior designer that you're either, it's external, that you're bringing in to help you make all those decisions and to take your visions and your dreams and what's on your Pinterest board to come to reality? you know, or does the builder have a process for how to make those selections timely in a way that doesn't make you feel rushed and also takes into account what your tastes are? Because that's what our interior designer or our designers do so well is they get to know your style and the more time they spend with you and the more, you know, pictures you can send them and the more your Pinterest is filled out, they can kind of get a sense for your taste and from having built firsthand with them, She very quickly found out, I like dark colors, my wife likes white colors. And how do we blend those two things together in a house so that it all works really well together, but both people get what they want? So I think those are probably the two biggest misconceptions that we hear about when we say, hey, what do you know about building? And they say, it takes a long time. It costs more than you're going to tell me. And what you said is just one that happens everywhere. And then how do I make all How do you balance the unexpected costs, especially in times like this where things Yeah. So I think it's the same as when something goes wrong for, you know, the painters don't follow the paint map. You just communicate with a client. I'm always one that says that if there's news to deliver, deliver it quickly, especially if there's something that there's bad news to deliver, deliver it very fast. Don't let it wait and linger. And by no means, are we perfect at that? But that's the point I try to get across because of the clientele that we build for a very high expectations. And oftentimes your consultants, your executives, when And their lines of work, when they say, get something done, it goes and gets done. In our line of work, it can be a little bit more challenging because we identify it and we got to wait for the crew to come back. And so sometimes it's on our list for a while. But as long as we're communicating with people, they know. The other thing we do, we typically don't do cost plus contracts. We are happy to do them if a client so chooses it, because they accept the risk, but they also accept there's some upside to it as well if costs go down. But we do fixed price contracting. So when somebody designs a house plan with us, I basically go through it with my procurement guy. We price everything out. And the only items that are cost plus are the allowance items, like your cabinets, your countertop, your tile, your lights, you know, your hardware, you know, the things that were a client's going to come in and make selections. And if we've done our job correctly, we've heard in the sales process what the client really wants. And so it's like, I know inset cabinets are going to cost more than the overlays. And so it's, if we know that upfront, then we can do a good job of making sure that those budgets are correct. Um, but that's, that also helps people with the fixed price. So we, we, as the builder take on a lot more risk of, We really have to know our numbers, but we've invested so heavily in our team and in our trade partners that I'm able to get a window quote turned around in a day. I'm able to get lumber quotes turned around very, very fast. So I feel a lot more secure when I give a client a All right. Fixed prices, 12 months. I'm like freaking out over here. That doesn't happen in New York. I mean, come on. I, we need to talk offline about doing something up here because the, it is the biggest nightmare in the world, what we deal with over here. And that is, we have the two to three years. I met an architect the other day who's building, it's been over three years and they're at 3,000 a foot. Wow. And like, It's, it's like monopoly money at this point. It just doesn't, it doesn't even make sense. You couldn't try to sell that if you tried. Yeah. And, um, it's, it's just, it's wild. And I think that's, what's so interesting about this industry. That's just for, for me personally, it's always been such a, you know, it's, there's no pinpointing what that cost and time actually will be. And to hear of a company that has kind of perfected their process to the point that they are able to fine tune that is, it's incredible. I can price what we do. I can price, you know, my materials and such. But the, and what I hear is just the fluctuations cause problems and there's nothing they can do about it, take it or leave it. There's more people who want the builders, so they have like the upper hand. And it's just turned into kind of a nightmare where I have most people who I honestly couldn't imagine building up in, really up in the North for many reasons, but one is just that we had a project manager that came down here that I talked to who was like, oh yeah, I mean, the ground froze, like you can't do too much for too long. And that would definitely start impacting those timelines when you're building with somebody. But the costing, I think, is probably a little bit universal, where there are builders here. I mean, there's builders everywhere. I'd say everybody that builds houses at our level is a great builder. I will never sit and disparage any single one of them. But I do think when you sit back, what's the differentiators? And that's really where we've been very intentional with, OK, we're going to have a procurement guy on our team. His whole job is to get the best pricing. And if it's not the best pricing, if they're not one of the lower prices, it's because they do such a good job that you have to pay them for that. And there are certain areas of the house where I won't compromise. I will not compromise on what the house is made of. I will not compromise on the, you know, the piping in the house, I will not compromise on the roof. Those are places where it's like, I don't want water in the house. I want it scurry. I want it stable. And so you just, you don't compromise at all. You say, who's the best person out there. And then you go see, you know, what you can do on pricing or, Hey, if I commit to X number of homes, you know, was there a volume discount? It's really working with those partners to try and understand that. Um, but that's really, if you invest in that person versus just, Oh, I bought, I bought this person for 20 years. You know, it's, you don't really know, are you, are you really the best price or have you been just kind of, it's been gone up over time and you're, you're doing it off of that. And so having someone very dedicated to procurement was definitely a good investment on our ends. It Yeah. Are your subs in-house or their exterior? Yes, we're 100% subbed out. So we don't have anybody in-house that we work with. Our guys really aren't picking up the hammers and doing any work. So we kind of sub out everything from start That's a great question. It's all really all based off relationships. You know, I think a lot of them kind of know that, you know, gentlemen that runs operations for us, like we're all kind of a no nonsense type. We like to have fun. We like to enjoy what we do, you know, but it's, it's kind of a, it's not like it's a formal three strike program, but if you don't show up or you create a delay, we're going and, you know, we're looking for, you know, okay, there's somebody out there that can do this better for us. But for me, it's always been, An easy differentiator is do I pay them on time? And so for me, I'm very diligent in terms of paying them on time, on schedule. They don't have to worry about me from getting that money in. That's really what drives a lot of them to say, OK, I know you're going to pay me, so we will show up for your work. And there are times where maybe we need to take a break from one another. I've had that a couple of times where I said, hey, let's have a cooling off period. We're going to go work with somebody else. Then let's come back. Let's have a sit down meeting, and let's figure out how can we work together again. I have one of those coming up next week. It's all about people and managing that expectations, but also understanding that there are options that are out there. We want to work with you, but you do have to show up on time. Because at the end of the day, if somebody doesn't show up, our clients are going to let us know about it. Yep, absolutely. Pivoting to what they actually look like in the end, what are some trends Yeah, so I mean, big rec rooms has been one for a while. It's a hit or miss one. We'll get feedback on both directions. But people want the bigger entertainment spaces. And it's not necessarily because they want to have all their friends over. It's more because they want their kids to have a place to play in. So that's been a big one. One that came and went really quickly for us was the pocket office concept. which is one where again, you pay attention to what your clients want, because it was very popular for a short period of time where everybody wanted this very small room where you could, you know, you could put a desk in, and it was a small desk, you know, maybe there's one or two windows, and that's kind of the working space, because it was then you could give more space to your primary bedroom, bathroom, closet, living room, kitchen. But that I feel like has started to move away. And then the big one right now has really been like the home wellness is what I'm calling it, where there are gyms in the house, there's a sauna built into the house, there's potentially a cold plunge in your house, where people have become so focused on their health and their wellness, which is great. I think that as your price point of home goes up, so does people's focus on that side of their mortality, their life. We're seeing a lot more of people say, okay, well, how much this wellness, you know, stuff can I put into a home. And so that's been, you know, that's been very, very cool to do, to see saunas getting put in bathrooms, you know, saunas getting put in next to, next to showers. It's just, you know, and then you have your, your gym spaces. It's been, it's been a very cool trend that I've, I've, I've enjoyed seeing. Absolutely. And then when in wine rooms, that's been the other one. Wine rooms, okay. I don't know what it, Yes, yeah, the big wine rooms, the wine feature walls, I mean, I have one in my house that I did just the way the way moving things worked out. That's just, you know, what, what seems to be a big, big hit. And I think what, like the wine room, specifically, even sauna, what that really goes back to is people want to be wowed when they walk in their house. They want, they want to walk in every day and go, man, this is, this is amazing. I love this. And they, you know, whether they want to admit it or not, they want people to Totally. Do you find that you're building forever homes or you're You know, I think it's a mix. I think we've, you know, I think everybody goes into it is kind of like, okay, I'm gonna build this is my forever home. I think that's what way most people probably come into that project. And okay, how can we put everything we want in the house. But I think if you really look at the data, and you know what's going on behind the scenes, I think a lot of them make more money, the market goes up, especially during COVID. I have all this equity, I'm going to sell this, and I'm going to go build my next forever home. I know I certainly did that. I bought out things forever home, and then I just went and built another one. But we also have those people who are, they're following their children around and they're basically saying, I'm going to live here as long as my children are here. And so that's kind of the difference in Raleigh right now that we have is we have a lot of tech coming in. We have a lot of executives coming in for new businesses. We also have a lot of young talent that's here and that's moving in. And so their parents are starting to move here to be closer to the kids. Interesting. So that's why I think you have a mix. And that work from home environment is why I think you also are seeing less of the forever home, because people can live and work anywhere. I know the shift seems to be coming back from that a little bit, but that's been, I think that's probably the pocket office thing came and went, is that there was a big work from home and now there's seems to be more people going back to the office for the collaboration and the interpersonal relationships. Yeah, absolutely. Well, this is all sounding Amazing to the point where I think I'm going to consider it at this point, Never say never, never say never. My goodness. Um, I want Exeter to be known as the company that cared more about you as the client than about the product that was being built. I just think that that is so much more important to me that our clients feel taken care of, they felt appreciated, than kind of the physical product. Again, I'm not a creative brain, so to me, I don't look at it as, oh, I'm building art, I want my art to be in Raleigh forever. For me, it really is like, no, I want to build relationships with people. I want people to look back at Exeter and say, I made the right decision building with them because they cared. Because in building, as you've said, things don't go right. Things do go wrong. Something's going to happen. We're not perfect. We're using man-made materials. They live and they breathe. And so you have to put more of an emphasis on the people. And I think that's been the biggest assistance for our upward trajectory in the last couple of years. And so as I sit and say, I want to be known as the best builder in Raleigh, and we've still got a lot of work to do, but I think that all starts with the people. That's both internally, where I put a lot of emphasis on our team, and then also externally with our clients and making them really feel like they've had the best experience possible. And you do hear a lot of horror Yeah, I love that. I think that relationship is something that if you have it, you just hold on to it with both hands. It's a really special thing. I want to give people a chance to find you. Where can they find you? Online, social media? Give Yeah, so my Instagram is Sdun90. Exeter's is Exeter Building. And then our website is ExeterBuilding.com. And we'd love to hear from anybody. I love insights and I love meeting other people in different areas, different markets. It's kind of my goal right now, because I can learn so much from designers in New York to builders in Tennessee, to builders in Missouri. So please Thanks for listening to The Interior Perspective. If today's conversation inspired you or you're a broker with a story worth telling, connect with us on Instagram at NicoleFisherInteriorDesign or visit NicoleFisher.com. Until next time, keep creating beauty, living with intention and seeing every space