I'm Nicole Fisher. I design spaces for a living, crafting those wow moments our clients get to enjoy every single day. And I've spent the last 13 years figuring out what people really want versus what they think they want. Turns out that applies to basically everything in life. So pull up a chair. This is The Interior Perspective. Hello and welcome back to The Interior Perspective. I'm so excited. My new friend Sasha Baikoff is here. Hello. I'm so happy you're here. Um, I feel like we have so much in common from a distance, and I'm excited to get into all the details with you. Um, first and foremost, congratulations on your book. Thank you. Um, tell us about it. So I wanted to really work on a book that was not just a pretty coffee table book and something that, you know, you would use to decorate your home. I kind of wanted it to also kind of explain how I do the things I do. And it's like a recipe book on maximalism. It shares my tools. It's a how-to guide. It shares the way I mix colors and patterns and textures and materials, different time periods. So it kind of accomplishes what the coffee table book does. It's a pink book that has this amazing crushed velvet pink image on it. It has an iridescence to it, pink binding, everything. But inside is A plethora of information that you would need to really decorate your own space. Amazing. What inspired it to be more of like a how-to versus more of a traditional— Yeah, I think like when I hit my 60s, I will have just a traditional coffee table book of my life's work. But at this point, I'm kind of more interested in the hustle and I'm kind of more interested in teaching people and like kind of showing the world this way to decorate and to kind of be fearless with design and tap into our emotions and what we love and what we enjoy and create unique spaces and homes, as opposed to like just promoting myself and my work. I feel like I will give myself that opportunity when, you know, I'm an old fabulous lady, right? Okay, that makes perfect sense. And I'm wearing like all tan and cream and beige all day, right? And I'm looking back at my like younger self, you know, that's when I will have that moment. And you're like Diane Keaton era, your cream turtlenecks? You know, it's not, it's not going to be entirely Diane Keaton. You know, it will be like a little bit more, you know, not as like masculine suiting as Diane Keaton, but yes. Why did you feel like this was the right time? I've been in business for 12 years now. I have such a wide range of work, so many amazing projects and clients that I've been able to work with. And I was approached by Random House Penguin, and I just felt like it was time. And it was like, it was also the perfect opportunity because They gave me this platform to be able to put everything I do into context and in words. And the way that the book is laid out is kind of interesting because it's like the vibe, the splendor, the flash, the eccentricity. So like all these adjectives used to describe my work are different chapters in the book, and they each kind of like teach you how to like create that theme and— Um, I really enjoy it. Like, one chapter is the scene, and so it's like a recipe on how to create the scene. I love that. Yeah, I'm so excited to read it. Yeah. Um, it's also so amazing to think about 12 years in business, and now, you know, you're putting something out into the universe that's part of this long legacy that you want to just continue building. I heard this quote by Diane von Furstenberg, and that's so odd, it's on our table right now, but Um, with legacy is about people you touch, the children you help, and the body of work. And I thought that was so beautiful with what you're putting out there, and like such a full circle moment with like that we're at Kips Bay right now and all the work that you did with Kips Bay. So it felt like a good transition for us to kind of touch on this, you know, Kips Bay ethos that I really think catapulted you into your next level of design. So how does it feel to be able to have not only a beautiful space too, but to really be able to help children? Yeah, well, I love Dianna Furstenberg, and I love that quote so much. I actually have not heard that quote, so that was really inspiring and amazing to hear. I think that like just doing what we do and being decorators, I think that creating these beautiful inspiring spaces transcend just like decorating and how we live. I think that like when I became a decorator, I really said like, I do wanna make a difference. I do wanna be disruptive in this market. I do want to like show the world how we could live like with color and how it can kind of like ignite conversation and change the way we think. And I, I always wanted to like kind of create these inspiring places and spaces, and maybe they're not for everyone, but they, they ignite a sense of creativity at the end of the day. And it's amazing being back here at Kips Bay because it's such an important platform for our industry, but it also is a way to show these kids this new art form that maybe they've not been around. And whether you have children who are interested in the culinary arts or in fine arts or in music and dance, these are all just different art forms. And at the end of the day, it's about being creative and it's about flourishing in that field. And I think to be able to come to this house and see all the beautiful spaces and how everyone has kind of like imagined these spaces is 100% inspiring to the children of Kips Bay and just everyone that walks around. That's why it's such a success. And I think it's, it's an amazing thing. And it, it was a great platform for me. It opened up so many doors for me creatively and business-wise as well. So I, you know, will always be a supporter of the Show House. Yeah. What was your experience? So I, um, I did the staircase in 2019, and it was really, really incredible. I, I, you know, my mind wanted like the master bedroom or the living room, but like, you know, little old me is like not getting that space. I mean, with like all these like incredible OG seasoned designers, I got the staircase, and I was like, damn, this is gonna be really challenging. Like, of course I get like Kind of the staircase. Like, that's not even a room. That's like just like the middle hallways of the house. What am I gonna do? Everyone's walking through your space. Everyone's walking through your space. Like, are people actually stopping and looking? Like, no, you're just like the passway of the space. And like, where am I gonna put furniture? I have narrow hallways. Like, how's this gonna work? And then like, I'm kind of like a very positive person, and I always think of You know, the glass half full. So I was like, okay, you know what? The staircase is the heart and soul of the home. It is the palate cleanser. I'm going to do something amazing, and I'm not going to treat this as a livable space. I'm going to do an installation. And so with so many craftsmen and my amazing vendors, we created 4 different rug patterns, 4 different hand-painted wallpaper patterns, custom paint colors, sourced amazing vintage lighting and collectible design lighting and furniture. And the space was inspired by the 1980s Memphis Milano movement and Scarface and Miami and the whole Art Deco revival design movement. And it ended up being kind of like this song and dance party up and down the stairs. And I think that my approach was kind of like genius in this setting. And it went viral. You broke the mold of what people do for show houses. 100%. And that's because I really went for it. And you could treat a show house like, okay, I'm going to make— I'm going to do my room so it's like really commercially pleasing and I can get a lot of business. I get a lot of clients from it, or you can kind of go like balls to the wall and like do whatever you want and like showcase like how like crazy the inner workings of our minds are as interior decorators. And both are great strategies. Like, I love both ideas. For me, at that point in my life, I wanted to treat it as like showing like the way in which like my mind can work. And it was like an exercise for me, but it was also like It was also like a kind of an experiment for me to see how people are going to react to something like this because we are kind of like in this insular conservative world that's almost like, you know, you can, you can see but you can't touch kind of place. And, and, and so like my whole idea was like, I want everyone to enjoy this. I kind of want like people that are not in our industry to come see this space. Yeah. I want like kids to enjoy this. I want like artists to come. Like, I wanted to like bring, I guess, a different crowd into the show house too by doing this. So it was kind of this experimental episode that I did, and I think it worked. It totally worked. Yeah, I mean, for us it was a bring— make, make this, uh, like destination. Yeah, so that people want to climb 7 flights of stairs. Yeah, exactly. But yours, you're so right. It could have just been this pass-through. So if you played it safe, you wouldn't have noticed. No one would have noticed. But it became this iconic moment, really, for show house. Everybody knows the Staircase. It was great. It was great. And then I did one again in 2023. Like a masochist, you did it again. I did it again. And it was at one of my closest childhood friends' home. And the show house. The show house. Really? Yeah. And it was funny because I remember going there as a kid, but it was interesting because, okay, now I finally got the primary bedroom that I was always said that I wanted. And it was like another amazing moment because my dream has always been to create a clamshell bed. And so I finally was able to create one for this bedroom. So that was like a very, very special moment for me. Yeah. So why did you do it again? Was it like you were invited? You felt like you had to? Like you wanted to outdo yourself for the second time? I feel like, I guess, like I kind of always said to myself, oh, I'll do a show house every 5 years, every 4 years. I don't know, I feel like that's like a good amount of time in between, depending on like how— what's going on in my business. If it works, it works. And like, it was, it was good timing for me, I would say. I think that like now, probably I would like wait longer before I do the next one. But it is, you know, it is a lot of work. It is a lot of stress. But, um, it was, it just, it was the right time, right place type of thing. Yeah. This reminds me of childbirth. That's how I keep talking to people about it. Yeah. It's like, fool me once, man, not twice. Yeah. I don't know if I could do this again. And the staircase was really hard because, like, everyone was lugging all their furniture up and down the stairs. Oh, and even think about, like, damage. Yeah. So, like, I was so worried about damage, like protecting the floors, protecting the wallpaper, like all my lighting, everything. The art was installed. So, but I was Yeah, I was like freaking out about that too. So— Wow. Yeah, I didn't even think about that. Yeah. So, okay, post-Show House, you've got great success. Um, how do you decide what gets like your attention? I think that at this point in my career, what really gets my attention is just like creating beautiful spaces, whether on the residential side or the commercial side, and really working with clients and people who trust the process, who kind of enjoy the process, and like who I enjoy working with. I think that for me and the way that I approach design is that it's like, it's kind of like collaborative in the sense that I, I really want my clients to love everything I do and I really want them to be happy. And so I, I enjoy working and also on the product side, because I have a lot of licenses and I create a lot of pieces, you know, things for the home. I just, I want to work with like amazing, fun people who are passionate about this as well and who like to have fun and who want to like enjoy, enjoy the whole process. Yeah. So is that really like the right partner, especially for like product? Is like, how did those you filter out those opportunities? Yeah, I think it's like about really working with brands who respect and share a similar vision as you and, and kind of want to go through the process of like doing, like creating amazing content, creating amazing like marketing, like PR stuff around these products and like really wanting to like push what you're doing. Because like, I feel like what I'm— what I have to share with the world is, is not just like something that's been created before. And it's not— I'm not like interested in like copying like Scandinavian design or something mid-century. So It really takes a partner that is going to like understand this like maximalist manifesto, you know. Um, it seems like, like looking through your licenses, they really, really get into like what they want this vision to be like. So many times I think the designer really gets like diluted in what they're able to create. Or by the time it gets into like the production phase, it's like, oh, this doesn't feel like me anymore, you know? Yeah. How do you protect that? I think that it's just like standing your ground and like trusting what you believe in and just being like really firm with your beliefs. Like, it's the same thing on the client side. Like, if, if a client really wants to do something and you really disagree with it and you don't think that it's gonna work, like It's your job as the professional to express that. And there are ways to do it nicely, and you always want to be respectful through the process. But I think that's really important because at the end of the day, they're trusting your expertise. So it's important to make sure that message gets sent properly. But I think that I'm actually really interested now on the product side. I've been like in the luxury field for so long and like direct-to-trade. I'm so interested in like sharing my vision and creating pieces at like a much lower price point, like for the world to enjoy. And it's something that's been on my mind. So I'm kind of like working on my own product designs and my own manufacturing. Hopefully I'll have like my own furniture line soon, which I would love to kind of like dive deeper into, but. I, I really want like the rest of the world to kind of enjoy what we enjoy, um, and what we do. And I think that like a lot of these direct-to-consumer brands, I think that like some of them are doing a better job than others in like putting out great design at affordable prices, but I still think that a lot of it's just so monotonous. Totally. It's all the same shit over and over. Yeah. And I think that there's a problem with that. I think that it's like their duty to, um, kind of like do a better job to give people, you know, more options. Right. The, the thing that I hear over and over is that it's just, you know, what we do is for a specific type of person, you know, it's not for The masses, and what the masses like is what everybody else sees. But maybe they're just not seeing. That's, that's 100% the problem. They are not seeing it, and they're just seeing waifu play everywhere. And that's, and that to me is sad. Yeah. So I, I hope to, I hope to be able to change that soon. Yeah. And is that a passion for you with Retail brands or to be able to create that like for yourself? I think I would just like do it myself at this point, you know. That's awesome. Yeah, why not? Why not? Why not? Let's do it. Yeah. Is your, your confidence, where does that, where do you think that comes from? You're not formally trained, I'm not formally trained. Like, I think it's something that you had to— for me it was a Being confident enough to, to get out of the masses, to know that what we want to put out into the universe isn't for everyone, um, and be okay with that. Yeah. You know, uh, where does your— where does that level of confidence come from? I think that from a very young age, I was deeply inspired by my grandmother. She was from Iran, and the way that she decorated her homes— I mean, she had like Persian rugs everywhere, she had like French and English antiques. I mean, she, she'd make these amazing flower arrangements and tablescapes. And she was an incredible cook. And we'd like spend so much time in the garden. And she had these like silk taffeta puddle drapes everywhere. And her whole bathroom was carpeted up until the stairs. And she used to sleep in diamonds. And she would have a cigarette and a Chardonnay like first thing in the morning. And I used to just see her. I know, if she was like If she was in a different era, she would have 100% been a decorator because she was a tastemaker. Yeah. And I used to kind of just like watch her. And, and, and we used to— my— me, my mom, and my grandmother used to walk up and down Madison Avenue, and they used to call us the 3 generations. And she used to treat Madison Avenue like it was a souk, like it was a bazaar. And she would like try and like hustle and wheel and deal and make them call corporate for extra discounts and throw in a perfume. and throw in a keychain. And the same thing in Belle Harbor. And then their home in Miami was like— my grandparents' home in Miami was like very Scarface Versace. Like, it was like red lacquer and black leather and sexy and everything. But there was always Persian carpets everywhere. And I just like grew up like seeing all this and like being around all this. And I grew up in New York City too. So like, I had all this culture all around me. And but the apartment that I grew up in, I was like, I was born in'87, so I was like a '90s baby, super minimalist. Like everything was like white Calvin Klein, Donna Karan, like just very minimalist era. And it didn't resonate with me. And I like connected more with my grandmother. Yeah. Um, and so like one day I went to the paint shop and I like started painting my room all different love quotes in different shades of pink. And my uncle took me to the Conran Shop, which is like this like iconic like '90s kind of like furniture store. I always wanted a canopy bed, but it was the Conran Shop and it was the'90s. So I got like a stainless steel, very modern canopy bed. But then I made him take me to the garment district and I got like all this like silk chiffon fabric in different shades of pink and I wrapped it around the bed and I like— Oh my God. lived in my little pink bubble. Dream childhood. I know, I know. And like, and that was— and like, and, and so like, that was my childhood. And I think that it was like the people that in my family that surrounded me that like always gave me that room to like be expressive. Like in college, I was a painter and a ceramicist. In high school, I was a singer and I was an actress and I performed. So my mother was a ballerina and she was a pianist. So like This like whole like world for me was like always about allowing me to be expressive. So I think that like not being like hindered and was really, really important to me and was like really special for me. Amazing. Yeah, I am so jealous that you had that childhood growing up. Um, it's beautiful to be able to be given a Yeah. It's really hard for me though now because I remember growing up, like, I remember for school photos, I don't know, I was like 7 or 8, I wore a Chicago Bulls t-shirt that belonged to my twin brother. I belted it and I put 3 pigtails in and my mom let me walk out like that. I am like so crazy with my sons and what they wear every morning. And my son will like, like, no, I don't want to wear that. I want to wear a jersey. I'm like, you are not wearing that jersey. Like, now, like, I'm I'm the crazy person not letting him pick out his outfits because I want him to look a certain way. So maybe it's a good thing that I have 2 boys. That's so funny. I have a son too. How old is your kid? 2 and 3. 2 and 3. Gosh. Yeah, you are a masochist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, my son's 7. Um, we just come up with a deal, like, you're allowed to dress yourself for like these things. I pick your— you have to like rotate your wardrobe and I get to pick out your clothes on Fridays. This is like the negotiation tactics that we're having, but When they're, um, it's so— but at the same time, it's so amazing that they have— they even— I know. They even care to say, I want to wear— I want to express myself. I know, because they see how much I care with like picking their outfits every morning. So, but you know, I really— I try. I like take them to museums all the time. Like every weekend we're at a different museum. I hang all their artwork in our kitchen. Like, it's so— it's important for— we talk about legacy. It's important for me to like carry on that sense of creativity. And like, when I, when I look, like, when I look at a tree, I see a floor lamp. Like, I want them to look at all these things in the natural world in like a whimsical way too. Yeah. And to be inspired. Yeah, exactly. So much out there to be inspired by. Um, do you think your trajectory is everything that you ever wanted? Is this like all in the cards? Did you plan this? Did you manifest? I, I did not plan this at all. I am a big manifester though, so like I'm always manifesting, but I'm like, there's so much more I want to do. There's so many more things I want to see. Like, there's no, there's no stopping this. I'm just like, go, go, go all the time. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, big proponents of hustle culture. Yeah, for sure. I'm a big hustler. I love it. Yeah. Would you change anything? I think that, like, from a— I don't, I, I don't know if I would necessarily change anything because I think that, like, mistakes and faults and things that have happened throughout my career have, like, I've learned so much from them. But, like, you know, I've had, like, red flags with, like, clients. I've had, like, orange flags with clients. I've had all the flags. And like, you just like, you learn from those situations, you learn from those mistakes, you learn from those conversations. And it just makes you be a stronger and better business person at the end of the day. And it's interesting because it's very hard to like, to be that person that's creative and most business-oriented and also business-oriented at the same time. Yes. But like, when you can do both, that's like when you actually can like put out there all this amazing stuff. So like, for me, I always say to everyone that works with me, and I always say to like, as advice to people, that it takes teamwork to make the dream work. And like, you can be like creative and you can like see this whole vision. And like dream up all this stuff, but like if you can't execute and if you can't like get all your ducks in line and like get your accounting right, like no one's ever gonna see that. Yep. What's your team like now? I like keep it really small, and I think that like it kind of may always be like that because when you hire me, I want you to get me. I don't want you to get like a team of like 6 designers like working on your home. Like I, I am like such a sourcer. I mean, my husband like always jokes around. He's like, stop shopping, like go to bed at like 4 in the morning when he sees my phone on. Like, I'm like, I'm sourcing. I'm not shopping. Okay. I'm working. I'm like, but like, that's just me. Like, I'm just around the clock. Like, I always want to use different fabrics. I always want to use different wallpapers, different paint colors. I want to like, I want to like be inspired by different eras and constantly like reinvent myself and reinvent things I do. And to do that, like, I have to do it, you know? Yeah. Do you find that creativity is still your number one thing that you focus on, or do you find yourself split with it? It's definitely, it's definitely split with the business for sure, because like, I can't do all these things I do without like being a businesswoman at the same time. Yeah. And I think that like people, whether like you're working on collaborations or on the client side, I think that like people respect that and appreciate that at the same time, that they know that they're working with a, like with someone who has a real business. Like so much time and effort and energy and hours go into the things that we do. And you're always going to have people that don't appreciate that. And it's like, if you don't appreciate that, then try and do it yourself. And I've seen people do it themselves that are not professionals, and it never looks right. Yeah. There is such an important need to what we do and to investing in your nest. Your home is the number one place that you're going to spend your time in, you know. So like, that's like hopefully forever or long term. That's a place you sleep, that's the place you dream, that's the place you're going to raise your family. So like, you want that to be the place that you love and that you cherish. And it, it really takes a professional, I think, to masterfully layer and put that together. 110%. And When you don't allow the professional to even like get it, that like last layer, because that is something we see too. That's like, there's at some point they want to stop spending money like that. Yeah, it usually happens toward the end of the project. Yeah, for sure. I'm tired of spending money. For sure. Um, but let that last, let that last 10% happen because like that's where like— Yeah, and like you can chat GPT all day long your rooms and your spaces and this and that. But like, is ChatGPT going to like really show you like the silk velvet tones that are waiting for you out there and the embroidered details and the tassel and the fringe and the trim and like all these like amazing key elements that make a space incredible? No, it's not. Yeah. So yeah, um, what's next for you besides the book? What's next for me? I have some amazing projects I'm working on that I'm really excited about, um, for some great clients. Um, I have the book, I have some collaborations I'm working on. I'm working on a fun bathtub right now with Chutney's, which I'm really excited about because bathing is my favorite thing to do, like, along with like swimming, along with like swimming and floating and whatever. I love to bathe. I'm like, I love— I'm like in the bathtub for hours. Really? Yes. Your son likes that too? Yes. My, my, my oldest son spends a lot of time in the bath with me. We like, we, we have a nice time there. We play with all his toys. I have like the little crayons, so we draw. But, um, I'm really excited about that. And, um, hopefully just like, you know, work on my own furniture line, um, and like just keep working with amazing people, amazing clients, great projects, you know, the usual. Is there anything you'd love to try or like test within your world? Interesting. I don't know, like I, I feel like I would love to like get more kind of into detail with like all this new kind of like spa technology and like all the different like saunas and like, you know, infrareds and things like that. Yeah. I'm like working on a spa right now, um, in a project in the Hamptons, but I'm kind of like really into like the whole like wellness space and seeing what that looks like. Because again, with all these kind of direct-to-consumer brands, the spa should look more interesting to me too. It doesn't need to be teak and like a cream travertine. It is such a miss right now. I think spas and gyms, they're just totally so basic and boring. And the second you try to get— it just doesn't exist. Totally. I want to make a spa that is like iridescent and mosaic and tiles. Like, let's like look back to Roman times. 100%. Like, let's like, like get ancient with it, you know? Like, why does it have to be like always like so like, you know, like equinox-y? Totally. Just like Scandi and like minimalist and nothing like black and teak. That's like all you want. Why? I don't understand it. Also, like, why does it have to be like so masculine? So massive. Like, why can't we get like Brazilian and fun with it too? Like, we're like the pops of— Yep. So you need like a gym equipment company to just like rethink about all of this. Exactly. But it still needs like the technology, and that's the thing that's like so hard about it. Yeah, yeah. Furniture and bespoke and custom, it's, you know, it's much easier for us to do, but like Creating things like for spas and gyms, like, require actually outside technology. If you're doing your home, why do you want your spa and gym to look like the gym that you are a member of? No, no, I don't. Like, it's your home, so why don't you want to make it, like, unique to the vision? 100%. That's, that's on the list. Yeah. And another thing is, like, where are I need some more color options with toilets. I've been saying this for years, like, with bathrooms, especially powder rooms. When you're doing, like, a fabulous wallpaper, you're doing a paint color, you're doing all these things. Um, I'm gonna, I'm gonna redo that. Anyway, when you're doing a wallpaper or paint colors, like, all these amazing things to your powder room, like, and you put a white toilet It just like stands out like a sore thumb. Yeah. Like, wouldn't you want your toilet to kind of like just blend in to the design of the space? Right. So like, let's get some color options. Let's be able to customize them on like a more ready, easy basis. Or like, why isn't someone just throwing out like a nice, you know, amount of colors that you can kind of choose from? I don't know, well, that's the, the wellness, the bathrooms, plumbing, all that stuff is kind of a bit of a mess. I know, it needs— they need to kind of get with the times a little bit. Uh, I agree. There's some cool shit going on in like the UK, but it really does— it stops at color. Everyone is terrified of color. Right, right. Um, so we need to— all right, we need to get on that. All right, we're moving into a speed round. Okay. Ready? All right, one thing in the interior world you're loving right now. Huh, one thing in the interior world I'm loving now. I guess I'm loving all this like brushed stainless steel stuff. I think it's like— and I, I'm loving how it's like mixing with different like genres and elements. I think it's really cool. Yep. Um, one thing in the fashion world? I'm loving new Chanel right now. So good. Matthew Blaise is just— especially all the new iridescent stuff that just came out. The pink— I got a pair of shoes. Did you— please tell me you did not get the ones where there's no soles on the feet. No, I didn't get those. I got these like pink iridescent ones. I got a denim bag. I'm really liking everything. I love it. Yeah, so good. Uh, dream project client, it could be dead or alive. Okay. Dream project is, and client is Mariah Carey. My earliest interior design memories is her episode of MTV Cribs and her penthouse in Tribeca, which just sold, done by Mario Buhatta. And she was in her Tom Ford Gucci era. Yes. 6-inch heels on the elliptical. Show ended up in the bathtub. My dream is to do a project with her because also I love Mario Buatta. Yeah. And so like just that synergy between Mariah, Mario Buatta, our love of butterflies, everything Y2K, like that is my dream. 100%. Um, I think I know the answer to this one, but early retirement or working until old age? Working until old age. There we go. There's our hustle girl. Um, the one word you're taking with you into the end of this year. The one word you're taking to, like, into 2024. Sublime. Love it. She is, and we love her. Sasha, thank you so much for being here. This was so fun. I can't wait for more drinks soon. Yes, thank you. Thank you. That's it for today. If something landed, send it to someone who really needs to hear this. Like, subscribe, come back next week. And if you need more in the meantime, you can find me@NicoleRFisher and everything NFI@NicoleFisherInteriors. See you next time. Bye.